[Frugalware-devel] enabling services by default in upstart?

[Gabriel C]

CSÉCSY László wrote:
> 2007. június 20. dátummal Gabriel C ezt írta:
>> I agree with you but the 'server' side doesn't matter at all as long we
>> don't have any 'server edition release'.
> I have to disagree since I don't get the difference between a 'server' and 
> a 'desktop' edition.

Then is time to open your eyes :P
(you may want install some 'server distro if you still can't see the difference').

> 
>> All we have by now official are 'Desktop' images not server not foo not bar
>> and 'all sort packages' to run FW as server for advanced users/admins.
> I haven't seen any 'desktop' releases, but only 'frugalware' ones. I am 
> administering several servers in different environments (hosting for several 
> domains, small bussinness gateway/file server, school, etc.), and I don't 
> have any drawbacks. To be honest, I don't want to have any drawbacks and/or 
> regressions because of switching to upstart, and 
> enabling-everything-per-default is a drawback for me.

... You will have , whatever we enable / disable all this things by default.
Upstart is different ( and any other init system is ) and you have to rework all your custom 'admin scripts'.

> 
>> Said 95% of all users installs Frugalware 'as is' for the 'Desktop' and
>> this is where we have to care for now.
> You have reason, but I haven't seen any statistics on this topic yet.
> 
>> Once we have a real 'server iso and install support for it and whatever
>> server repos or the like' we can start to care but till then ..
> Well, why do we have eg. 'apache' in our repos? This is not needed for 
> a 'desktop' install at all. There are several others of this kind: eg. *ftpd, 
> MTA's, SQL servers... So I do understand your point of view, but it's 
> baseless, as we do have everything in our repo, regardless of 
> it's 'server'-like or 'desktop'-like kind, and we do support all of them.

Why you don't read what I've said ?
And _no_ we don't have any kind 'server *installation* support/*installation* profile support for servers' but :

...

' and 'all sort packages' to run FW as server for advanced users/admins. '
  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
...

It is so hard for you to realize this ?

There isn't any "klick here to install Frugalware as 'server'" in installer or do you see everything like this now ? [1]

Supporting a lot 'software may run on servers' is not the same 'as supporting a Frugalware server *edition*'

[1] You have to install 'base' or 'without any X / desktop(s)' an *customize* yourself for now.

Anyway do you really think 'mysql' and friends are 'server only' software ? ..


> 
> To sum up: I really appreciate Alex's (and others') work regarding to upstart, 
> but enabling every service on install is a bad idea. OTOH there is a place 
> where we can use your differentation between 'server' and 'desktop' stuff: if 
> a service is needed for 'desktop' usage (eg. udev, alsa, etc.), let's enable 
> it (as we mostly do it now), but if it's a 'server'-like service (eg. httpd, 
> sqld, ftpd, etc.), I don't want it to be enabled by default. AFAIK upstart 
> can handle this, all we have to do is implementing it. Where can I give you a 
> hand on this topic?

You can enable * , disable bar but the point is you are a bit confused.

See http://wiki.frugalware.org/TODO-0.7 (1) and the same has to be done for a 'server profile' which maybe need a separate repo for some things.

In other words 'we need the *server profile and support* in installer first' then we can discuss what the 'init server profile shall look like'.
Things like *SQL , MTA is not server stuff only anymore all sort players and other 'desktop' programs are using *SQL to store the db's etc etc.

You may want to work on this ?